Curse

LifesRestorer · Mar 08, 2008, 04:44 PM // 16:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

1cc, 10 recharge, .25 casting

only costs 1 skill slot, can be used defensively as well as offensively...

suiraCLAW · Mar 08, 2008, 07:26 PM // 19:26

Quote:

1cc, 10 recharge, .25 casting

Glyph of renewal + shame at 13 dom costs 2 energy, WoD costs 1 less but also sacrifices 10% health (saccing 60 health every 10 seconds isn't nothing). The shame combo can recharge in 11 seconds as well.

Quote:

only costs 1 skill slot, can be used defensively as well as offensively...

WoD is extremely bad at defense: casters can just ignore and blinding surge is in every way more effective then WoD at stopping melee (no adrenaline building). Plus, the optional arcane echo takes another slot.

Now let's compare skill bars:

twicky_kid WoD bar:

WoD
Arcane
Diversion
Foul Feast
Plague Sending
Power Lock
Power Leak
Res Sig

And a mesmer bar:

Glyph of renewal
Shame
Diversion
Shatter enchantment/Energy burn
Power Drain
Power Leak/Power Lock
Drain Enchantment
Res Sig

- While the necro can disable a monk in .25 cast time, the mesmer spells will cast ~33% faster, which is a huge difference on diversion and can certainly help with interrupting.
- The necro can control conditions, but the mesmer can clear enchantments easily and can do an extra 94 armor ignoring damage in the spike. It should also be noted that it's near impossible to both draw/send conditions actively and interrupt at the same time with the same amount of concentration the mesmer would have.
- The mesmer can use glyph of energy in a lot more ways, since it's an utopia to spike every 10 seconds. Not to forget that diversion can be just as effective to shut a monk down during a spike as shame. As a result, the mesmer is more versatile (ex: chaining 2 diversions).
- The mesmer has a higher spec in domination magic

In other words: the mesmer is at least as effective as the necro...

Tearz1993 · Mar 08, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Personally I feel WoD is in some ways worse than blackout... No side effect on the caster, long range, AND they are allowed to accidentally cast something with WoD, wasting energy. Not only this, but it can't be interrupted. The only downsides are diversion-fodder and monks can preveil, but when used by decent players neither of these really matter.

Burdock · Mar 08, 2008, 07:54 PM // 19:54

Imo Anet did a good job, I like to see necros in gvg again. WoD isn't overpowerded but about right imo, though I'd like to see Foul Feast a little nerf because it's infinitely stronger than draw atm.

Phe Belladona · Mar 08, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by suiraCLAW

Glyph of renewal + shame at 13 dom costs 2 energy, WoD costs 1 less but also sacrifices 10% health (saccing 60 health every 10 seconds isn't nothing). The shame combo can recharge in 11 seconds as well.

WoD is extremely bad at defense: casters can just ignore and blinding surge is in every way more effective then WoD at stopping melee (no adrenaline building). Plus, the optional arcane echo takes another slot.

Now let's compare skill bars:

twicky_kid WoD bar:

WoD
Arcane
Diversion
Foul Feast
Plague Sending
Power Lock
Power Leak
Res Sig

And a mesmer bar:

Glyph of renewal
Shame
Diversion
Shatter enchantment/Energy burn
Power Drain
Power Leak/Power Lock
Drain Enchantment
Res Sig

- While the necro can disable a monk in .25 cast time, the mesmer spells will cast ~33% faster, which is a huge difference on diversion and can certainly help with interrupting.
- The necro can control conditions, but the mesmer can clear enchantments easily and can do an extra 94 armor ignoring damage in the spike. It should also be noted that it's near impossible to both draw/send conditions actively and interrupt at the same time with the same amount of concentration the mesmer would have.
- The mesmer can use glyph of energy in a lot more ways, since it's an utopia to spike every 10 seconds. Not to forget that diversion can be just as effective to shut a monk down during a spike as shame. As a result, the mesmer is more versatile (ex: chaining 2 diversions).
- The mesmer has a higher spec in domination magic

In other words: the mesmer is at least as effective as the necro...

you seem to be measuring a dom build vs a build twicky kid came up with ofc the dom build is better.. you dont need to explain why. tho tbh thats not the best dom build

DutchSmurf · Mar 08, 2008, 08:53 PM // 20:53

If you compare WoD to something like Gale tho, it doesn't look that strong anymore at all. Gale shuts down your target completely for 2 seconds, isn't elite and is in an useful attribute (or doesn't require much points). WoD shuts it down almost completely for 4 seconds, is elite and in a bad attribute. And I've yet to see a WoD bar that actually does something more then just WoD. Or any succesfull bar with WoD that is. So until we do see one, I think discussing if it is overpowered or not should wait.

suiraCLAW · Mar 08, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

tho tbh thats not the best dom build

Yeah, I just used that specific build for comparisation. But I could just as well have token a blackout/AoD mes or a backbreaker/mokele/FGJ warrior to show why a 4 sec disable isn't that amazing, even at a 10 sec recharge (yup, all of them are subpar builds too)...

Luminarus · Mar 08, 2008, 11:36 PM // 23:36

You missed the part where WoD is range, takes 1 slot, costs less, can have more utitlity on the bar etc.

Backbreaker/mokele/FGJ theres 3 slots gone
AoD/Blackout - 5 seconds where you're out of it

WoD build i'd consider running:

WoD
Rip Enchantment
Plague Sending
Foul Feast
Arcane Echo
Diversion
Shame
Res Sig

EDIT:

Forgot to mention, whats the point of the buff to magebane? If they would block irresistable blow is better (imo), if not devastating is better...

-Pluto- · Mar 09, 2008, 12:42 AM // 00:42

It's not like diversion isn't hard to get off on a mesmer who casts it at just about 2 seconds because of the ranger and mesmer on the other team or anything. Oh, except it is hard to get off because the mesmer and ranger are going to interrupt it. Let's put it on a necro anyway though, so it's even harder to get off with a 3 second cast time.

Quote:

Forgot to mention, whats the point of the buff to magebane? If they would block irresistable blow is better (imo), if not devastating is better...

I assume you're talking about magehunter. Applying weakness is NOT a good thing, unless you use heavy blow (and if you are, you should stop and ask yourself, "Why am I running heavy blow instead of hammer bash?"). Magehunter is devastating, but without the useless weakness and the option to kd blocking foes. You probably want to kd foes that don't block anyway though, so you can crushing, but sometimes kding a monk protted so the other war can spike someone can be nice too.

kvndoom · Mar 09, 2008, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Rip Enchantment is good enough to make Corrupt look like a bad elite all of a sudden. I doubt it'll stay as is for very long.

C2K · Mar 09, 2008, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

Rip Enchantment is good enough to make Corrupt look like a bad elite all of a sudden. I doubt it'll stay as is for very long.

Its easier to stop bleeding than it is to remove a hex. I like what they did to Rip Enchantment, but I think they should have kept the "lose 10-6% health" for using it.

suiraCLAW · Mar 09, 2008, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Quote:

You missed the part where WoD is range, takes 1 slot, costs less, can have more utitlity on the bar etc.

You missed the part where the mes has more energy mangement and doesn't cost more (saccing ~60 health every 10 seconds shouldn't be ignored), has at least as much utility (actually more, there a lot more free spots) and doesn't really waste a spot at all: glyph of renewal can be used for more things as well and if you time shame right you can use it as pressure/e-denial, WoD can never serve as pressure.

The downsides of WoD are:
- it's in a pretty much useless attribute and requires an enormous spec
- it's an elite
- monk hex removal doesn't require attribute: the monk can still clear the hex himself and heal afterwards.
- most shutdown spells last for 6 seconds, this one only last 4 seconds

Quote:

WoD
Rip Enchantment
Plague Sending
Foul Feast
Arcane Echo
Diversion
Shame
Res Sig

It's still subpar to any mesmer build: it's extremely prone to interruption, can't interrupt at all and will have a hard time managing energy, health (saccing) and time. Plus, it still can't help in a spike. Oh and your WoD+echo combo takes up 2 slots as well, with one of them being utterly useless for more then half the time...

The only scary thing about that build is foul feast + plague sending. But that isn't because WoD is overpowerd, but because foul feast is way too strong in comparisation with draw...

Quote:

Backbreaker/mokele/FGJ theres 3 slots gone

Does that matter?
Backbreaker (or Magehunter)/crushing/bash (or mighty blow)/mokele/fgj/flail/enraging/death pact sig. Why would I need more slots? It shuts down a monk for 4-7 seconds and deals tons of damage and DW while doing so. In fact, you don't even need mokele + fgj, since pretty much no team will spike every 10 seconds.

Lord Sojar · Mar 09, 2008, 11:38 AM // 11:38

This update has been amusing, to say the least.

All around, great update.

Regarding WoD. Not overpowered, just gimmicky at best. Fun to fool around with, but doesn't quite fit into meta right now.

Foul Feast is a bit much... I say it needs to be adjusted. Like.... oh I dunno, lose the +energy bit? Yeh, maybe.

Oh, and Cry = <3. I actually brought that into GvG for the first time in....well, since pre factions.

the_deSKtructor · Mar 09, 2008, 12:11 PM // 12:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luminarus

Forgot to mention, whats the point of the buff to magebane? If they would block irresistable blow is better (imo), if not devastating is better...

Magebane kds if it hits and can't be blocked if the target is under an enchantment. Irresistible blow doesn't kd if it's not blocked. The kd condition on Magebane is easier to meet.

twicky_kid · Mar 09, 2008, 03:42 PM // 15:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rahja the Thief

Regarding WoD. Not overpowered, just gimmicky at best. Fun to fool around with, but doesn't quite fit into meta right now.

For now. The meta has been shifted a lot with nerfs to Sins.

Its not very important at the moment because spike isn't mainstream.

Pre-veil won't do much considering rip enchantment's buff. Remove veil cast WoD.

After shock seems really powerful now. The hammer wars in splits could see a huge benefit from the no aftercast.

Hard to tell were the meta will end up. None sin splits got buffed and group spike got buffed too.

Tamuril elansar · Mar 09, 2008, 04:53 PM // 16:53

scale the number of conditions transfered from foul feast imo, like 1.....5 or smthing

Turbobusa · Mar 09, 2008, 06:19 PM // 18:19

wont fix anything since those necros usually run WoD at 13 SR.
Up the recharge or get rid of one of the gains.

DutchSmurf · Mar 09, 2008, 06:35 PM // 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbobusa

wont fix anything since those necros usually run WoD at 13 SR.
Up the recharge or get rid of one of the gains.

No, they don't run WoD. Plague Signet, OoB, Toxic Chill, Tainted Flesh or other elites are far more likely. So it would help. But I don't think it is needed yet.

Zuranthium · Mar 09, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

The energy gain on Foul Feast is a real problem. Needs to be lowered.

Rip Enchantment definitely should have kept the life sac.

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

After shock seems really powerful now. The hammer wars in splits could see a huge benefit from the no aftercast.

LMAO, NO.

And it does have aftercast, it's just less now.

If Aftershock sees play, it will be on midline E/A's that spike with a Warrior (or perhaps a pure Ele spike team build...but Aftershock absolutely shouldn't be put on a Warrior).

~Z

Almighty Zi · Mar 09, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Regarding Psychic Instability, I like this skill now as interupting any skill every 10 seconds is pretty hot, however, I have found the KD effect to be pretty pointless. I was looking for skills that it could work nicely with. I tried Waste Not Want Not (definately getting the energy from a KD foe) and then decided it was more worthwhile just taking the usual p drain. I then looked at Lift Enchantment and then realised that it was touch range (grr) - now that would have been a nifty combo. I then tried it with Awe but that seemed a bit too gimmicky and pretty ineffective.

Seeing as you don't really benefit from the KD 95% of the time, you have to wonder why you would take this as your elite when you could just take Cry of Frustration instead now that this is also 10 energy (the correct cost of the spell imo). Ok, CoF recharges 5 seconds slower but it is non-elite and to all intents and purposes does the same thing.

My suggestion would be to rework the skill slightly to be an elite skillful version of shame/guilt. I was thinking of something like this: 'If target foe is casting a spell or chant that foe is interupted and hexed with Psychic Instability. For 4 seconds, if target foe casts a spell that targets someone other than himself or performs a chant (or shout?), that foe is knocked down'. You'd definately then have to change the recharge to at least 15 if not 20 seconds, however, even in this incarnation although it can only interupt spells/chants and perhaps only recharge in half the time, I think that it would be a more useful elite.